Gordmac Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 Thanks for that. Shetland would be easier and more pleasant to get to than the South coast! Problem with the Tarfish version of the BT is they have no accommodation or flybridge, accommodation may be an option apparently. Worth a chat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 @Gordmac incase you have not looked around one. Here is a good video walk through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, JonC said: A little bit smaller than the boats mentioned, but a really nice boat on the end of my pontoon is a Rhea 850 timonier. It’s the only one I’ve seen over here but on the south west coast of France they seemed to be commonplace. If I could afford one I would buy one if available. Edit . Scrap that, they are very strong money. And slow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 20 minutes ago, JonC said: Are they slow? There’s one listed with a 340hp engine, that must cruise well. Ones Ive seen 12-14knots wot. They are displacement hull I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Saintly Fish said: Ones Ive seen 12-14knots wot. They are displacement hull I believe. Scrub that, I’ve just googled, one of them maxes at 28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordmac Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 Thanks. The Benny 9 is a nice enough boat but slow. I like the Rhea, they apply more power to the SD hull than Benny do so they have a turn of speed but as normal with a SD hull at huge fuel cost, 3-4l/m at 20 to 25kn. Scarce and out with budget too. The Tarfish 820 is a lot more basic than the equivalent BT27 but correspondingly cheaper. Had a chat with the owner, 2005 model with 2800 hours. Engine has had the sump replaced for rust, is that normal? Leg has been South for checking and repairing, new seals and props. I am not sure how well maintained it has been, chap hasn't owned it that long. Strangest thing is it has a fridge but no galley module. I suspect it may be costly to retro fit that. Interesting boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 @Gordmacyou are going to have to compromise in some area. So what area are you most prepared to compromise in?? You can’t have performance without fuel consumption. You can save fuel without going slower. So the Antares is too slow? So how fast is satisfactory to you? When do you often get the chance to use a faster boat at its performance optimum. I know down here the solent is very rarely going to allow you to go WOT and be comfortable. So a slower boat is ok! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordmac Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 Indeed compromise is always needed, not just with boats! My previous boat would sit about 15kn but quite greedy on fuel. I would like the ability to do 25kn but the compromise there with shafts would be 20kn. Maybe modern medium vee hulls don't do well in a bit of weather, I don't know, the Levi I had would do pretty well any speed in anything and my friend's BT35 seems able to do over 20kn in pretty bad seas, big boat though. With a single on an outdrive you can get speed without heavy fuel consumption, the compromise being the outdrive costs. As an example a Seaward 25 uses about 1.8l/m at 20kn whereas a BT25 would be about 0.8l/m at that speed and would be at about 1.4l/m at 34kn. The differences are because of the different hull type as well as propulsion. I don't have figures for a planing hull on shafts at that size. Of course the other compromise is size and weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 37 minutes ago, Gordmac said: Indeed compromise is always needed, not just with boats! My previous boat would sit about 15kn but quite greedy on fuel. I would like the ability to do 25kn but the compromise there with shafts would be 20kn. Maybe modern medium vee hulls don't do well in a bit of weather, I don't know, the Levi I had would do pretty well any speed in anything and my friend's BT35 seems able to do over 20kn in pretty bad seas, big boat though. With a single on an outdrive you can get speed without heavy fuel consumption, the compromise being the outdrive costs. As an example a Seaward 25 uses about 1.8l/m at 20kn whereas a BT25 would be about 0.8l/m at that speed and would be at about 1.4l/m at 34kn. The differences are because of the different hull type as well as propulsion. I don't have figures for a planing hull on shafts at that size. Of course the other compromise is size and weight. Well yes but they don’t call the BT’s the 4x4 of the sea for nothing. Yes you may get better performance with the out drive and save 0.6ltr per mile, but you will have to spend £1k a year extra to service the thing and have the added risk of further maintenance issues on top with an out drive. If I were you I’d be going down the single or twin engined shaft option and take a hit on the outright performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordmac Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 From what I am told an outdrive costs about the same as an engine to service so twin shaft costs would be similar to a single outdrive. I do my own servicing, £1000 buys an awful lot of oil! The difference in fuel cost is significant but not huge. As I said, if you are spending £4-5k on parking your boat another £700 or whatever on fuel is not significant, fuel will be my biggest cost though. The Benny 9, Rodman, Starfisher etc all have the same internal layout, a double berth in the forecabin and a smaller bed made from the seats and table. Some have better side decks than others. Some have twin engines and a better turn of speed. The layout makes getting from the helm to the side deck slower which will make it more difficult to single hand, particularly if the side decks are tight. How susceptable to windage is also an issue, hard to guage. Without having a look around them I can't really decide on suitability or desirability. Single outdrive boats like BT, Nordstar etc have decent walkaround side decks and side doors allowing quicker access for single hand use. The outdrive gives better economy as they go faster on the same power than a shaft drive. The outdrive is a bit more of a risk than shaft drive though. Problem is these boats are scarce and out with my price range! The Tarfish is more or less in my price range but needs a galley module (gas is apparently a real pain to retrofit) and is a bit on the basic side. I really need to have a look at a few boats. The only one I am familiar with is the BT, my friend has a 35. We took it up from Cornwall and have been to Stkilda so know what it will do (and how much fuel it uses!). I have also had a look round a 27 and a 29, inside and out. I had a look round the outside of the Rodman 1120 for sale near here and the 810 parked beside it but not anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 17 minutes ago, Gordmac said: From what I am told an outdrive costs about the same as an engine to service so twin shaft costs would be similar to a single outdrive. I do my own servicing, £1000 buys an awful lot of oil! The difference in fuel cost is significant but not huge. As I said, if you are spending £4-5k on parking your boat another £700 or whatever on fuel is not significant, fuel will be my biggest cost though. The Benny 9, Rodman, Starfisher etc all have the same internal layout, a double berth in the forecabin and a smaller bed made from the seats and table. Some have better side decks than others. Some have twin engines and a better turn of speed. The layout makes getting from the helm to the side deck slower which will make it more difficult to single hand, particularly if the side decks are tight. How susceptable to windage is also an issue, hard to guage. Without having a look around them I can't really decide on suitability or desirability. Single outdrive boats like BT, Nordstar etc have decent walkaround side decks and side doors allowing quicker access for single hand use. The outdrive gives better economy as they go faster on the same power than a shaft drive. The outdrive is a bit more of a risk than shaft drive though. Problem is these boats are scarce and out with my price range! The Tarfish is more or less in my price range but needs a galley module (gas is apparently a real pain to retrofit) and is a bit on the basic side. I really need to have a look at a few boats. The only one I am familiar with is the BT, my friend has a 35. We took it up from Cornwall and have been to Stkilda so know what it will do (and how much fuel it uses!). I have also had a look round a 27 and a 29, inside and out. I had a look round the outside of the Rodman 1120 for sale near here and the 810 parked beside it but not anything else. Although I agree with your comments with regards to twin engine and single out drive servicing costs, the out drive has the potential to become a serious cost if something untoward were to happen. I pilot my starfisher single handed and moor up no problem on my own. It’s all about preparedness and knowing how the boat will handle. I have no side door and it’s not an issue. You definitely need to climb over a couple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 My experience with outdrives was painful. The cost to service in a good year was around the same as the engine however most years were not good years. In 7 years I had 2 complete rebuilds and a replacement cone clutch. First time the rebuild was around £2200 the last time was £3000. As you say the plus side was fuel economy and performance but generally you spend all that saving and more on additional maintenance (well I did). I would say though that outdrive boats are more fun to drive. If I bought another outdrive boat I would make sure it had duo props for more torque and less steering torque ie more likely to drive in a straight line, if that makes sense. I would factor in for replacement cost within my sums and not trust previous owners had the same diligence towards adherence to maintenance as I might have. If I were to choose one of those on your list of boats to buy my choice would be Botnia Targa 27.1 however after 5 years of ownership I do still love my Rodman Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 34 minutes ago, Maverick said: however after 5 years of ownership I do still love my Rodman Testament to the boats design and build quality. My ST840 is probably the first boat I’ve owned that I’ve actually wanted to keep long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordmac Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 I never found sticking my boat on it's mooring a problem (unlike rowing back against the wind!), the problem was putting it on the club pontoon. Getting from the wheel to get a line on a cleat before the bow got too far away was sometimes tricky! I have to say I am a bit scared of the risk with an outdrive but as Maverick says, there is also a fun factor to the higher performance outdrive boat. I also like the extra manoeuvrability of twin engines. Terrible these first world problems! Saintly Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Gordmac said: I never found sticking my boat on it's mooring a problem (unlike rowing back against the wind!), the problem was putting it on the club pontoon. Getting from the wheel to get a line on a cleat before the bow got too far away was sometimes tricky! I have to say I am a bit scared of the risk with an outdrive but as Maverick says, there is also a fun factor to the higher performance outdrive boat. I also like the extra manoeuvrability of twin engines. Terrible these first world problems! Legs aren’t an issue.... if you have the right one and look after it!!! Volvo leg is good. However it will depend on size of boat too.... if you’re running a 10m cat into a head sea it’ll struggle.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Gordmac said: I never found sticking my boat on it's mooring a problem (unlike rowing back against the wind!), the problem was putting it on the club pontoon. Getting from the wheel to get a line on a cleat before the bow got too far away was sometimes tricky! I have to say I am a bit scared of the risk with an outdrive but as Maverick says, there is also a fun factor to the higher performance outdrive boat. I also like the extra manoeuvrability of twin engines. Terrible these first world problems! I find that when approaching the pontoon if you’ve got all your lines ready it’s no need to panic. On my mooring i berth on a 10m finger. As I slide into the berth I leave it in gear but just on tick over. My line is laid out with a enough slack to be able to throw the line a foot or two, catch the cleat then tie off. The forward motion of the boat continues and you take up the slack, then the line tightens and as it does so the bow will swing in and stay planted against the pontoon, allowing you to then tie off the bow. Take out of gear and then adjust lines as required. A bow thruster can be useful if the tide is running a bit but the forward movement of the boat should be enough to keep the bow in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, Saintly Fish said: I find that when approaching the pontoon if you’ve got all your lines ready it’s no need to panic. On my mooring i berth on a 10m finger. As I slide into the berth I leave it in gear but just on tick over. My line is laid out with a enough slack to be able to throw the line a foot or two, catch the cleat then tie off. The forward motion of the boat continues and you take up the slack, then the line tightens and as it does so the bow will swing in and stay planted against the pontoon, allowing you to then tie off the bow. Take out of gear and then adjust lines as required. A bow thruster can be useful if the tide is running a bit but the forward movement of the boat should be enough to keep the bow in. Talking of bow thrusters, is yours being sorted yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 30 minutes ago, suzook12 said: Talking of bow thrusters, is yours being sorted yet? Yeah this week hopefully now the weather is drying and warming a bit. I got the antifoul done this morning. So nearly ready for relaunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzook12 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Saintly Fish said: Yeah this week hopefully now the weather is drying and warming a bit. I got the antifoul done this morning. So nearly ready for relaunch. Cool. You gonna put some pics up of the work being done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 17 minutes ago, suzook12 said: Cool. You gonna put some pics up of the work being done? If I get the chance to see it being done I will. suzook12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 11 hours ago, Gordmac said: I never found sticking my boat on it's mooring a problem (unlike rowing back against the wind!), the problem was putting it on the club pontoon. Getting from the wheel to get a line on a cleat before the bow got too far away was sometimes tricky! I have to say I am a bit scared of the risk with an outdrive but as Maverick says, there is also a fun factor to the higher performance outdrive boat. I also like the extra manoeuvrability of twin engines. Terrible these first world problems! Legs aren’t an issue.... if you have the right one and look after it!!! Volvo leg is good. However it will depend on size of boat too.... if you’re running a 10m cat into a head sea it’ll struggle.... As for a 10m pontoon finger.... I’ve got 8m for a 9m boat.... makes it interesting on your own 🤣🤣 Practice makes perfect, just got to keep at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordmac Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 When buying secondhand you have had no influence over it's previous life. Our club pontoon has a 6-7m hammerhead to park on, not quite so simple as a 10m finger! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintly Fish Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Gordmac said: When buying secondhand you have had no influence over it's previous life. Our club pontoon has a 6-7m hammerhead to park on, not quite so simple as a 10m finger! I’d rather a hammer head than a finger, normally means there are no boats port or starboard of you to hit !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) Hammerhead easier.... my berth in 2019 in mifolrd meant I had to reverse the entire row of boats into the main exit channel the turn 270deg to get to locks.... thecworst but was the berth was tight underneath a pub.... nothing like an audience to aid the pressure 🤣🤣🤣 Shafts are harder apparently... but you can prop walk them and you got a skeg/rudder to stop drifting beam on due to wind. Alrhoigh, last year I did see a big cruiser get his swim platform under the hammerhead and nearly rip the pontoon off.... 😮😮😮😮😮😬😬😬😬 Edited February 22, 2021 by Odyssey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordmac Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 On 2/22/2021 at 10:37 AM, Saintly Fish said: I’d rather a hammer head than a finger, normally means there are no boats port or starboard of you to hit !! You can't drift very far, particularly if there is another boat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.